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	<title>Comments on: Do Not Trust Appearances: My Visit to Deep Springs College</title>
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		<title>By: michael ormond</title>
		<link>http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/do-not-trust-appearances-my-visit-to-deep-springs-college/#comment-63870</link>
		<dc:creator>michael ormond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/?p=3631#comment-63870</guid>
		<description>I am a recently retired family lawyer so I don&#039;t really need your services.  I was struck however by the artical about Deep Springs.  I lived in Telluride House in as a graduate student 1964-6 (with Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Galston, Nathan Tarcovand various Deep Springers whom I do not recall.  I had been sent to Cornell from the University of Chicago to study with Alan Bloom who was associated with the house. The experience still remains powerful for me.  Thanks for your article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a recently retired family lawyer so I don&#8217;t really need your services.  I was struck however by the artical about Deep Springs.  I lived in Telluride House in as a graduate student 1964-6 (with Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Galston, Nathan Tarcovand various Deep Springers whom I do not recall.  I had been sent to Cornell from the University of Chicago to study with Alan Bloom who was associated with the house. The experience still remains powerful for me.  Thanks for your article.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Leventhal</title>
		<link>http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/do-not-trust-appearances-my-visit-to-deep-springs-college/#comment-48561</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Leventhal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2011 04:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/?p=3631#comment-48561</guid>
		<description>This is certainly the most amusing article I have ever read about Deep Springs. As a student there from the late 70s I can recognize the institution you describe, although your narrative shows a view of the place deeply skewed by your own prejudices. We often joked about the Cotton Tail brothel but I am pretty sure no students ever availed themselves of the services offered. Who knows, the year you were there maybe there was something that happened but, if so, it certainly was outside of the norm. The 80&#039;s had some exceptional classes, some of the best young men ever to attend Deep Springs. I was there, the school certainly offers and is what it claims to be which, among many other things, includes the claim that it really isn&#039;t for everyone. I would advise your readers to take your advice to heart when assessing the veracity of your article, look beyond the appearances, understand the personal agenda of the writer, and decide for yourself based on facts and on what matters to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is certainly the most amusing article I have ever read about Deep Springs. As a student there from the late 70s I can recognize the institution you describe, although your narrative shows a view of the place deeply skewed by your own prejudices. We often joked about the Cotton Tail brothel but I am pretty sure no students ever availed themselves of the services offered. Who knows, the year you were there maybe there was something that happened but, if so, it certainly was outside of the norm. The 80&#8242;s had some exceptional classes, some of the best young men ever to attend Deep Springs. I was there, the school certainly offers and is what it claims to be which, among many other things, includes the claim that it really isn&#8217;t for everyone. I would advise your readers to take your advice to heart when assessing the veracity of your article, look beyond the appearances, understand the personal agenda of the writer, and decide for yourself based on facts and on what matters to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Pam</title>
		<link>http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/do-not-trust-appearances-my-visit-to-deep-springs-college/#comment-45900</link>
		<dc:creator>Pam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 00:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/?p=3631#comment-45900</guid>
		<description>My son who is a senior in high school received an &quot;impressive&quot; 19 page color brochure from DS College in today&#039;s USPS mail.  I had never heard of DS College and was curious about it because of the &quot;credential&quot; cited in the brochure.  The Google search results included the &quot;Do Not Trust Appearances: My Visit to Deep Springs College&quot; article, which I just finished reading.  Thank you for publishing the article as it was very, very informative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My son who is a senior in high school received an &#8220;impressive&#8221; 19 page color brochure from DS College in today&#8217;s USPS mail.  I had never heard of DS College and was curious about it because of the &#8220;credential&#8221; cited in the brochure.  The Google search results included the &#8220;Do Not Trust Appearances: My Visit to Deep Springs College&#8221; article, which I just finished reading.  Thank you for publishing the article as it was very, very informative.</p>
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		<title>By: reed cu</title>
		<link>http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/do-not-trust-appearances-my-visit-to-deep-springs-college/#comment-45449</link>
		<dc:creator>reed cu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2011 20:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/?p=3631#comment-45449</guid>
		<description>I went to DS in 1958 and it was well worth the effort. Any bit of being a a poseur was quickly discovered. Most the guys there were athletes: My class had high school varsity athletes in crew, football, track (ranked California high jumper), baseball and wrestling (state champion). The other classes were as well represented in similar sports (one ranked tennis player). Three of my class served active duty in military (combat infantry as LRRP TL with 173rd Airborne through psychiatrist with XVIII Airborne  Corps). Another in class died (killed) in Israel ostensibly as Economics Officer at US Embassy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to DS in 1958 and it was well worth the effort. Any bit of being a a poseur was quickly discovered. Most the guys there were athletes: My class had high school varsity athletes in crew, football, track (ranked California high jumper), baseball and wrestling (state champion). The other classes were as well represented in similar sports (one ranked tennis player). Three of my class served active duty in military (combat infantry as LRRP TL with 173rd Airborne through psychiatrist with XVIII Airborne  Corps). Another in class died (killed) in Israel ostensibly as Economics Officer at US Embassy.</p>
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		<title>By: DrDom</title>
		<link>http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/do-not-trust-appearances-my-visit-to-deep-springs-college/#comment-16969</link>
		<dc:creator>DrDom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 19:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/?p=3631#comment-16969</guid>
		<description>Harrison,
I enjoyed your article. I have a nostolgic connection about the place but I never attended. My son heard me talk about a high school acquaintance who attended in the early 1970s and my son became enchanted. The decription of the place was very appealing to me in a romantic way and I guess my son picked up on it. He applied and was crushed when he didn&#039;t make to round II despite excellent grades. I think things changed alot since the 70s and perhaps the students were themselves overly impressed with SAT scores and the number of AP courses a student has taken. My son is now a 3rd year philosophy major at UChicago. He just loves the learning environment and now in hindsight I don&#039;t know if he would have thrived as well at DS. He really enjoys the urban environment and the intellectual rigor. He&#039;s an Eagle Scout and I guess that was part of the appeal of the place. Nice to happen upon your essay. Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harrison,<br />
I enjoyed your article. I have a nostolgic connection about the place but I never attended. My son heard me talk about a high school acquaintance who attended in the early 1970s and my son became enchanted. The decription of the place was very appealing to me in a romantic way and I guess my son picked up on it. He applied and was crushed when he didn&#8217;t make to round II despite excellent grades. I think things changed alot since the 70s and perhaps the students were themselves overly impressed with SAT scores and the number of AP courses a student has taken. My son is now a 3rd year philosophy major at UChicago. He just loves the learning environment and now in hindsight I don&#8217;t know if he would have thrived as well at DS. He really enjoys the urban environment and the intellectual rigor. He&#8217;s an Eagle Scout and I guess that was part of the appeal of the place. Nice to happen upon your essay. Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Harrison Barnes</title>
		<link>http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/do-not-trust-appearances-my-visit-to-deep-springs-college/#comment-12510</link>
		<dc:creator>Harrison Barnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 05:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/?p=3631#comment-12510</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment, Doug. I think the school has a lot to teach and the fact that you and I are both writing about it 20 some years later certainly says something about the place. I certainly never regretted visiting.   

Harrison</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, Doug. I think the school has a lot to teach and the fact that you and I are both writing about it 20 some years later certainly says something about the place. I certainly never regretted visiting.   </p>
<p>Harrison</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Pascover</title>
		<link>http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/do-not-trust-appearances-my-visit-to-deep-springs-college/#comment-12509</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Pascover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 02:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/?p=3631#comment-12509</guid>
		<description>You know, after leaving the above comment, I had a flashback and I might be here to apologize after 20+ years.  After I was a student I stayed on for a year and a half and worked for the ranch. I do remember meeting one applicant around the school and asking him what he thought.  He shared some doubts with me along the lines that you describe and I shared with him a running Deep Springs joke that ran &quot;I came for the intellectual community and stayed for the free food.&quot;  As staff, I wasn&#039;t very involved in the day-to-day school and meant nothing by it but a reference to the earlier joke when the guy was leaving and I kidded &quot;I hope you enjoyed the food.&quot;  I remember the guy glaring over his shoulder at me as he left which surprised me and some students snickering which also surprised me.  It doesn&#039;t quite match your story but if that was you and that was me, my apologies for the misunderstanding. I was being a smartass but not in quite the way you and the students thought I was being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, after leaving the above comment, I had a flashback and I might be here to apologize after 20+ years.  After I was a student I stayed on for a year and a half and worked for the ranch. I do remember meeting one applicant around the school and asking him what he thought.  He shared some doubts with me along the lines that you describe and I shared with him a running Deep Springs joke that ran &#8220;I came for the intellectual community and stayed for the free food.&#8221;  As staff, I wasn&#8217;t very involved in the day-to-day school and meant nothing by it but a reference to the earlier joke when the guy was leaving and I kidded &#8220;I hope you enjoyed the food.&#8221;  I remember the guy glaring over his shoulder at me as he left which surprised me and some students snickering which also surprised me.  It doesn&#8217;t quite match your story but if that was you and that was me, my apologies for the misunderstanding. I was being a smartass but not in quite the way you and the students thought I was being.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Pascover</title>
		<link>http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/do-not-trust-appearances-my-visit-to-deep-springs-college/#comment-12508</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Pascover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 00:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/?p=3631#comment-12508</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say you learned a great lesson that what&#039;s impressive on the surface is usually flawed beneath, but there&#039;s more to that lesson, I think.  A weekend at Deep Springs isn&#039;t a look very far beneath the cover.

My time at DS overlapped with Charlie&#039;s (comment above) and you&#039;d have been unlikely during my time there to meet anyone at the school who&#039;d been to the cottontail ranch for sport or who would treat you the way you described.  (I&#039;m not doubting your story, but assuming it&#039;s true, that must have been an unlucky year to visit.)  Your description of the students is dead on for about half and about half of us were a lot more athletic than that and a lot less intellectually persnickety. I got there with lots of dirt already under my nails and left a cleaner man.

Thank you for your post. 25 years later I&#039;m still plenty nostalgic for the place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say you learned a great lesson that what&#8217;s impressive on the surface is usually flawed beneath, but there&#8217;s more to that lesson, I think.  A weekend at Deep Springs isn&#8217;t a look very far beneath the cover.</p>
<p>My time at DS overlapped with Charlie&#8217;s (comment above) and you&#8217;d have been unlikely during my time there to meet anyone at the school who&#8217;d been to the cottontail ranch for sport or who would treat you the way you described.  (I&#8217;m not doubting your story, but assuming it&#8217;s true, that must have been an unlucky year to visit.)  Your description of the students is dead on for about half and about half of us were a lot more athletic than that and a lot less intellectually persnickety. I got there with lots of dirt already under my nails and left a cleaner man.</p>
<p>Thank you for your post. 25 years later I&#8217;m still plenty nostalgic for the place.</p>
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		<title>By: Random Turner-Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/do-not-trust-appearances-my-visit-to-deep-springs-college/#comment-12506</link>
		<dc:creator>Random Turner-Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 23:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/?p=3631#comment-12506</guid>
		<description>Harrison- Thanks for your story about Deep Springs- I was a student at Deep Springs from 85 to 87 so I don&#039;t think we&#039;ve ever met- although I was  around a bit the year you interviewed.  It looks like you&#039;ve tried to to turn a negative social experience into a positive learning one- and that&#039;s a very good thing.  Deep Springs can be a brutally complicated and intense place- I think perhaps not attending is a good thing for many. I think if you had been accepted and had chosen to attend you may have had a seriously shitty time- I did- but I think from the above you would have learned a great deal- you seem to have the insight that would have to turn that sort of experience into a real asset.  I am for better or for worse bonded forever to those guys that I went to DS with and rather than think about who is more morally correct or which ones I can or cannot trust I just accept them as they are- I know you can&#039;t change them- but knowing some of them as well as I do I know when to trust them- which is never any of them always- for me you have to know someone well enough to filter what they&#039;re saying to you through how well you know who they are and how they communicate.  There are few DS&#039;s that are truly malicious- but there are many that are very idiosyncratic in their social manners...Again Thanks Again for your posting- Random Turner-Jones RN DS85</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harrison- Thanks for your story about Deep Springs- I was a student at Deep Springs from 85 to 87 so I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve ever met- although I was  around a bit the year you interviewed.  It looks like you&#8217;ve tried to to turn a negative social experience into a positive learning one- and that&#8217;s a very good thing.  Deep Springs can be a brutally complicated and intense place- I think perhaps not attending is a good thing for many. I think if you had been accepted and had chosen to attend you may have had a seriously shitty time- I did- but I think from the above you would have learned a great deal- you seem to have the insight that would have to turn that sort of experience into a real asset.  I am for better or for worse bonded forever to those guys that I went to DS with and rather than think about who is more morally correct or which ones I can or cannot trust I just accept them as they are- I know you can&#8217;t change them- but knowing some of them as well as I do I know when to trust them- which is never any of them always- for me you have to know someone well enough to filter what they&#8217;re saying to you through how well you know who they are and how they communicate.  There are few DS&#8217;s that are truly malicious- but there are many that are very idiosyncratic in their social manners&#8230;Again Thanks Again for your posting- Random Turner-Jones RN DS85</p>
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		<title>By: charles abbott</title>
		<link>http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/do-not-trust-appearances-my-visit-to-deep-springs-college/#comment-4610</link>
		<dc:creator>charles abbott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aharrisonbarnes.com/?p=3631#comment-4610</guid>
		<description>Dear Harrison,

Thank you for this column which is highly enjoyable and entertaining.  You make some very good points.  

It is also nice to read about Deep Springs College, which I attended from 1984 to 1986.  Later I earned a B.A. at SUNY Buffalo, and a Ph.D. at the University of Iowa.  

Deep Springs College provides a difficult and demanding program that is not for everyone.  

Please allow me to apologize if you were treated with disrespect while you were a guest of the college.   

Students at Deep springs take ideas seriously.  Arguing and discussion (for excellent reasons or sometimes perhaps no reason at all) sometimes becomes the norm.  

Because it also doubles as a working ranch, arguing is not enough.  Hard work, competence, tenacity, and good craft skills are also respected.  

Deep Springs College changes rapidly as students and staff come and go.  Had you visited a year earlier or a year later your experience might have been very different.  

That is because Deep Springs is &quot;intensely republican with a small r.&quot;  Many tasks are performed by rotating committees, or by individual students who change office every several months (as was the custom in Italian or Greek city-state republics).  

The admissions committee that considered you as a potential student was thus not a committee of academic professionals, but in large part the students of the college.     

Because the students take such a large role in administering the College, mistakes inevitably happen.  It is unfortunate if your experience was unpleasant.  Again, please allow me to apologize.  From your column, it seems clear that on some level the students were (consciously or unconsciously) testing you.  

Thank you again for your column.  The College is doing well.  We anticipate celebrating the 100th anniversary of its founding eight years from now in 2017.  More information about the college is available at its web site, and it continues to seek applications from prospective students who seek the sort of education it offers.  

Kind Regards,

Charles Abbott

P.S.: like you, I came in on evening bus from Las Vegas and was dropped at Lida Junction around midnight.  We did not drive 110 miles an hour the entire time because of the problem of cattle clogging the highway.  Was that your experience?  

I distinctly recall riding in the cab of a light pickup truck on the way to Deep Springs from Lida.  Sometimes we went very fast, and other times we slowed to a crawl as we waited for the cows to get out of our way (some were perhaps sleeping on the warm highway).  It was dark, so cow obstacles had to be predicted by signage, &quot;cattle guard&quot; crossings on the highway, etc.  

During my time at Deep Springs only one or perhaps two students patronized the brothel at Lida Junction and admitted to having done so--such trips would only be allowed outside of the academic term when classes were not in session.  Friends tell me that the brothel is no longer there.  

The students do sometimes look like they may have just stopped following the Grateful Dead, but as you learned from your interview the culture of the college is in some ways rather straightlaced and serious.  The use of drugs or alcohol are grounds for expulsion--by the students, not the staff.  Perhaps for that reason, Peterson&#039;s Guide lists Deep Springs as a non-party school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Harrison,</p>
<p>Thank you for this column which is highly enjoyable and entertaining.  You make some very good points.  </p>
<p>It is also nice to read about Deep Springs College, which I attended from 1984 to 1986.  Later I earned a B.A. at SUNY Buffalo, and a Ph.D. at the University of Iowa.  </p>
<p>Deep Springs College provides a difficult and demanding program that is not for everyone.  </p>
<p>Please allow me to apologize if you were treated with disrespect while you were a guest of the college.   </p>
<p>Students at Deep springs take ideas seriously.  Arguing and discussion (for excellent reasons or sometimes perhaps no reason at all) sometimes becomes the norm.  </p>
<p>Because it also doubles as a working ranch, arguing is not enough.  Hard work, competence, tenacity, and good craft skills are also respected.  </p>
<p>Deep Springs College changes rapidly as students and staff come and go.  Had you visited a year earlier or a year later your experience might have been very different.  </p>
<p>That is because Deep Springs is &#8220;intensely republican with a small r.&#8221;  Many tasks are performed by rotating committees, or by individual students who change office every several months (as was the custom in Italian or Greek city-state republics).  </p>
<p>The admissions committee that considered you as a potential student was thus not a committee of academic professionals, but in large part the students of the college.     </p>
<p>Because the students take such a large role in administering the College, mistakes inevitably happen.  It is unfortunate if your experience was unpleasant.  Again, please allow me to apologize.  From your column, it seems clear that on some level the students were (consciously or unconsciously) testing you.  </p>
<p>Thank you again for your column.  The College is doing well.  We anticipate celebrating the 100th anniversary of its founding eight years from now in 2017.  More information about the college is available at its web site, and it continues to seek applications from prospective students who seek the sort of education it offers.  </p>
<p>Kind Regards,</p>
<p>Charles Abbott</p>
<p>P.S.: like you, I came in on evening bus from Las Vegas and was dropped at Lida Junction around midnight.  We did not drive 110 miles an hour the entire time because of the problem of cattle clogging the highway.  Was that your experience?  </p>
<p>I distinctly recall riding in the cab of a light pickup truck on the way to Deep Springs from Lida.  Sometimes we went very fast, and other times we slowed to a crawl as we waited for the cows to get out of our way (some were perhaps sleeping on the warm highway).  It was dark, so cow obstacles had to be predicted by signage, &#8220;cattle guard&#8221; crossings on the highway, etc.  </p>
<p>During my time at Deep Springs only one or perhaps two students patronized the brothel at Lida Junction and admitted to having done so&#8211;such trips would only be allowed outside of the academic term when classes were not in session.  Friends tell me that the brothel is no longer there.  </p>
<p>The students do sometimes look like they may have just stopped following the Grateful Dead, but as you learned from your interview the culture of the college is in some ways rather straightlaced and serious.  The use of drugs or alcohol are grounds for expulsion&#8211;by the students, not the staff.  Perhaps for that reason, Peterson&#8217;s Guide lists Deep Springs as a non-party school.</p>
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