Increasing Efficiency is Your Best Route to Employment Security

The cheapening of any article in common use almost immediately results in a largely increased demand for that article. Take the case of shoes, for instance. The introduction of machinery for doing every element of the work which was formerly done by hand has resulted in making shoes at a fraction of their former labor cost. Now almost every man, woman, and child in the working classes buys one or two pairs of shoes per year, and they wear shoes all the time. Formerly, each workman bought perhaps one pair of shoes every five years, and went barefoot most of the time, wearing shoes only as a luxury or as a matter of the sternest necessity. In spite of the enormously increased output of shoes per workman, which has come with shoe machinery, the demand for shoes has so increased that there are relatively more men working in the shoe industry now than ever before.

The workmen in almost every trade have before them an object lesson of this kind, and yet, because they are ignorant of the history of their own trade, they still firmly believe, as their fathers did before them, that it is against their best interests for each man to turn out each day as much work as possible.

Under this fallacious idea, a large proportion of workmen deliberately work slowly so as to curtail their output. Almost every labor union has made, or is contemplating making, rules which have for their object curtailing the output of their members. Those men who have the greatest influence with the working people, the labor leaders, as well as many people with philanthropic feelings who are helping them, are daily spreading this fallacy and at the same time telling them that they are overworked.

-Frederick Winslow Taylor, The Principles of Scientific Management (1911)

From the time I was 18 until I was about 27, I spent most of my summers working as an asphalt sealant and maintenance contractor around Detroit, Michigan. One of the main jobs I did involved putting an asphalt sealant on parking lots and driveways. At the beginning of my first summer doing this work, I used to purchase the sealant in five-gallon pails. Then I starting purchasing the sealant in 55-gallon drums and installing a pipe on the drums to drain the sealant out. After a few years, I did so much asphalt sealing work I had a trailer custom made to hold 550 gallons of the sealant.

From the beginning of my second summer through my third, I had two people working for me whose job was to assist me in putting down the sealant. Their names were Larry and Jake. Larry was Jake’s father. Jake was mentally disabled but not overly so. He understood what was going on and followed instructions. He never really said much, however.

Neither Larry nor Jake cared much for the work they were doing. While they had decent work ethics and put up with me literally walking into their homes and getting them up for work each day, they were not extremely concerned with the quality of the work they were doing. They frequently cut corners and I needed to watch them pretty carefully. Larry was a guy I remember and respect a great deal because I think deep down he was a really good person. On Sundays, I used to have to wait in front of his house until he got back from church with his wife and children. Larry was a smart man who had made some mistakes throughout his life but worked when he could. He was hungover every day, and I bought him Gatorade after Gatorade at convenience shops to keep him going.

We would fill up five-gallon pails from the barrels and then walk the sealant over to an area of the asphalt we wanted to seal. Then, we would spread it around on the asphalt with either squeegees or a large brush. Without going into a lot of detail, this was excruciatingly difficult work because the sealant gets on your skin and burns. You are also outside, and the sun burns you because you are on black asphalt all day, and the sealant is a very heavy tar liquid that you need to pull off your skin at the end of each day. It often takes layers of your skin off when you remove it and needs to be removed with gasoline and a steel wool-like material.

As this business grew, I started getting better and better equipment for it. I will never forget the moment I purchased and installed a pumping system and sprayer on the tank. With this new pumping system I was able to pull up to any parking lot or house and, after blowing all the debris off the driveway or parking lot, turn on this spray machine and complete sealing the asphalt without hardly getting dirty at all. Best of all, I did not need to fill up the five-gallon buckets. I simply needed to turn on my sprayer and walk up and down the driveway.

One day I pulled up to a driveway that Jake and Larry were working on around 5:30 in the afternoon and turned on the sprayer. They were in the middle of working on the driveway and, by the looks of it, would be working for at least another 35 to 40 minutes. I told them to stop. Then, wearing khaki pants and a fresh shirt from the dry cleaner, I completed the entire job in less than five minutes.

I could see they both looked somewhat astonished. They also looked frightened because I think they believed this new sprayer was going to put them out of a job.

“This thing does not give as good of a coat as doing it by hand,” Jake said. This was the first time I had ever heard Jake say anything about the quality of the work we were doing.

“Yeah, it does not look as good,” said Larry.

The strangest thing happened over the next few weeks. Weird things started going wrong with the pump and we never made it through a full day. Belts would suddenly fail. Start switches would break off and disappear. I began to suspect after a week or so of this Larry and Jake were sabotaging the pump because they knew it could put them out of a job. After a few weeks of this I insisted I be the only one allowed to operate the machine, and I made sure I was. While I still have no proof of it to this day, I think Larry and Jake were sabotaging the machine.

Change is something that creeps into every single business, and the objective of every business is to lower costs because lower costs mean more profits. This means they are always looking for ways to eliminate your job. That’s right. Your very job is a threat to your company and its profits.

When I started in the Internet business in the year 1999, the world was a far different place. One of the most interesting things I witnessed involved computer programmers. In the late 1990s through 2001, computer programmers were like gods to companies in the United States. They could demand six-figure salaries and jumped around between companies at an alarming rate. Everyone wanted to hire them because there were so many Internet companies and businesses believed the Internet was the next great frontier.

At our small company we practically needed to beg programmers to work for us. We would offer them pizza and other incentives when they were not on other projects. In some cases, we would pay them as much as $100 an hour to do the work, and then they would stop working after four or five hours because they thought the work was “boring.” Some of the programmers I interviewed even requested stock options just to show up for work. I was baffled by the programmers I worked with and my inability to get the programmers to do any work really held me back.

Due to the difficulty surrounding this issue, we started building an office in India. We had no problem getting people to do the work there. In fact, people were enthusiastic about getting the work and wanted more of it. While there were lower costs associated with the work, the real reason for getting the work done abroad was that people were enthusiastic about doing the work. All we wanted was to get the work done.

After the dot com crash and the events of September 11, 2001, all of a sudden those American programmers were out of work. Tens of thousands of American programmers were let go in a very short time, and Internet companies dropped like flies.

I remember putting an ad out in late 2001 for an in-house programmer and getting overwhelmed with applications. I received so many applications, literally, one every few seconds, that I had to make changes to the settings in my Microsoft Outlook. I ended up hiring one person to work in our Los Angeles office who had just received a PhD from Caltech. I practically could have hired anyone I wanted in the world. There was simply no work for programmers. It had all dried up.

The economy did eventually recover. However, I still did not grow our base of programmers in the United States. I had such a bad experience the first time and, in the interim, had built a large group of programmers in our company in India. This was all I needed. I cannot imagine how many jobs went to India due to this.

Our company is not alone. Many companies do all their programming in other countries now. It simply makes more sense for them from a financial standpoint. They are not interested in doing work in the United States anymore due to the cost, hassles, and the fact the people are not as enthusiastic about doing the work.

There are tons of jobs in the United States and around the world right now that are under fire and are likely to disappear in the near future. There are many reasons jobs disappear, but the main one is because they can be done cheaper elsewhere. Every company and organization is constantly striving for greater efficiency. If your employers can do your job cheaply elsewhere, then they will.

There is no reason for them not to. The more cheaply they can produce a product or service, the more they can potentially sell of that product or service. The more of the product or service that’s sold, the more the company will grow and expand.

What does this mean for you and your job? It means the best use of your time and skill is finding jobs and employers where your role is one of increasing the efficiency of the company’s work. You always need to embrace efficiency and increase the output of the company at the lowest cost possible. If you fight efficiency, you will be seen as an enemy of the company and its growth. If this happens, you will most likely be looking for a new job shortly.

In the past there have been a number of phenomena I’ve watched with great interest:

-The emergence of China as a major economic power
-The massive decline of the American automobile industry
-The rise and massive success of various American companies like Intel, eBay, and Oracle
-The huge rise of jobs in places like India

China emerged as a force to be reckoned with because they can produce goods more cheaply. People will work for less money in China, and this makes it cheaper to produce products there. Incredibly, it is still cheaper to produce products in China even after accounting for shipping the products on boats all the way to the United States. All over the United States, hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs have disappeared due to the emergence of China as an economic power. If you are someone working in a factory in the present economy, you need to realize your job could be replaced very, very easily.

The American automobile industry has experienced a long and steady decline. Cars can be produced more cheaply elsewhere. American unions have set wages and benefits higher for American workers than for competitors. This has given competitors a huge advantage and also given American automobile companies less money to invest in improving their products. The products have continually gotten worse and worse. The companies able to produce the product at the lowest cost are winning.

The companies that have done the best in the United States over the past several decades are the companies that are increasing efficiency. While I could go into considerable detail about this, companies like Oracle, for example, creates database software which allows companies to save money by operating more efficiently. The efficient operation of these companies creates huge value. A company like eBay creates efficiencies by allowing people to trade goods without having to travel or do extensive research. This, too, creates efficiency. Companies like Intel make microchips that have not only aided the rapid spread of personal computers, but have also enabled companies to use computers which allow them to operate more efficiently.

India has been absorbing many American jobs for decades. They have call centers, programmers, and even legal work is being done there. The country has a lot more people than the United States and a corresponding level of talent. There is another advantage: people are willing to work more cheaply there for most jobs. It only makes sense for American companies to hire people there.

These are all examples of efficiency in action. You need to understand the world and your job are constantly being pushed to be more efficient. When you take a job at any company, you are entering an environment where you are at war. You are at war with the fact your employers are doing everything within their power to make their businesses more efficient. That means they want to save money on you and your work to the maximum extent they can.

The smartest thing you can do in your career is find companies that are increasing efficiency in the market and go to work for them, or find a company where you can increase the efficiency of what is being done. You need to embrace efficiency. If you fight efficiency, you will ultimately lose your job. We are not secure in our jobs and cannot be secure if we don’t embrace efficiency. The war for and against efficiency is something that is going on in every company and every organization. The employees and people who win this war are the ones who fight to make things more efficient.

Winning in Your Job Search and Life Means Going Forward No Matter What Criticism You Think You May Receive

What You Will Learn Do not be afraid to act and do not fear criticism. Do not care for what other people are saying or will say. You need to lead and not follow. The winners in this world are the ones who are acting despite what others may say, or are saying.

Every day when I sit down to work in the morning and turn on my computer, I generally receive several emails and comments about the companies I am running and also, for what it is worth, me personally.

• Some people will write me an email telling me I am the stupidest person they have ever encountered.
• Other people will say something very positive and will tell me how something I have done has benefited them and thank me for this.
• Some people will write me an email telling me they hate a company I am running.
• Some people will write and enclose pictures of their family and tell me I have changed their lives through something one of my company’s has done.
• Some people will post a comment on one of our websites saying they love a company I am running.
• Some people will write me psychotic emails that insult me and my family.
• Other people will write emails telling me that the advice I have given them helped their family.

In addition to stuff that appears simply on my desk, out in the world the same thing is occurring.  There are people who are going onto forums and talking about how much they love me and my companies and those who are going onto forums and doing the opposite.

You absolutely cannot please everyone.

Most of us are hungry for praise but detest and fear criticism.  If you attempt to go out in the world and do anything that is productive; however, then you are going to be hated and you are going to be criticized.  In many respects, I feel that the biggest achievers in our world are the people who are not afraid to act and are not afraid of criticism.  Acting and going forward in the face of “criticism” and despite the “fear of criticism” is something that really separates the winners and the losers of the world, in my opinion.  You need to act and do things you know are right for you, your family and the world regardless of whether or not you believe that you may be criticized.

The only people who are criticized more often are the people who are actually doing things in the world.  If you are never being criticized you are never being noticed, and the price for not being noticed is most often much greater than the price for being noticed.

One of the most interesting things in the world is reading about politicians in the newspaper each day.  Since I have been reading the newspaper each day for the past few decades, I have noticed that there are numerous patterns with politicians and others who come into elected office.  For every group of people that admire a politician, there are always a group of people who hate the politician.  The haters write this and that about the politician and hurl one insult after another at them.  I can remember several years ago when George Bush, Jr.  was first elected to the Presidency. I was working in an office tower in Los Angeles one Sunday afternoon, and I opened my window and there was a giant protest of thousands of people going on beneath me in Pershing Square.  People were shouting over loud speakers that he was a “Nazi Executioner,” a “Failure at Business,” a “Racist Hick” a “Coke Head,” an “Alcoholic,” and all sorts of other terrible things that I no longer remember.

How would you feel if thousands of people were shouting things like that about you?  It would not make me all that happy.  Imagine thousands of people doing this?  I cannot imagine it is something you would be all that happy about.  This is what winners do, though.

Winners proceed in the face of criticism.  Winners do not care if they are going to be criticized and, if they are, they go forward anyway.  Winners know they cannot please everyone.

When you try and please everyone you are going to fail.  If a company tries to run a business that pleases everyone, they fail. In order to experience the success you are entitled to in life, it is important for you to choose sides and just do what you think is best.  You are going to upset some people and may get criticized but who cares?  You cannot please everyone.  Action is better than inaction.  You need to take action and take sides to go somewhere.

Does it feel bad to be criticized?  Yes, if you let it.

Will you be criticized if you take sides on this or that.  Maybe, but you cannot worry about that.

What I have found in my experience of working with thousands of people looking for jobs is that most people are frozen with a fear of “how it will look” and “what others will think” if they do something a certain way.  More careers and lives have been destroyed by this attitude than I can count.  The fear people have of criticism holds them back and prevents them from living up to their full potential. It is probably affecting you too. It affects most people.  Those it does not affect the most are the people whose lives you are watching on television and reading about in the papers.  They are living lives that are different from most because they know something the rest of us do not.

Several years ago I was working with an extremely talented partner in a major American law firm.  This partner had been working at the same law firm for about his entire career and he did not really know how to look for a job.  This person had a career that had been characterized by a lot of success and as far as I knew no failure.  The attorney was extremely dedicated and knew what he was doing in the realm of practicing the branch of law he did.  He had a reputation that was considered stellar in all respects among other attorneys and people who he worked with with.

I had seen articles about him in the legal newspapers and he worked with many very famous clients and celebrities and knew them personally.  His wife was also a very important socialite around Los Angeles. I had seen her in the papers as well.  After I started working with him, I started recognizing her in pictures in the society section of the Los Angeles Times for this and that.  (While it was my job to introduce him to law firms, I remember thinking “I wonder whom he can introduce me to”.)

What was missing, of course, was the fact that this particular attorney needed to find a job.  It is one thing to be very powerful and know a lot of very famous people, and it is another to need a job.  When you need a job, the entire world may feel like it has kind of clammed up to many people.  This is not a fun thing, and it is brutal.  It is one thing to be friends with someone, and it is another thing to go to them and ask them about a job.

In the case of this important attorney, for the past 25+ years he had been brutally fighting with opposing lawyers and law firms all around Los Angeles and had been someone to be feared.  That was his job, and he was good at it. Then to go to those same law firms and ask for a job I can imagine made him feel as if he was suddenly telegraphing a sort of weakness he never had.  This is something I can imagine was going through his mind. I do not know; however, I expect it was.

In January of 2000, I quit a job I had with a law firm.  While I had originally given two weeks notice, the law firm told me that I should stay on for the next 12 weeks and at least line up another job if I was unhappy.  I had planned on opening up my own legal practice; however, the law firm encouraged me to speak with recruiters and others to see if I might be happy working in another law firm.  They explained to me that it would be very difficult for me to find a job with another large law firm if I left a large law firm without another large law firm job.  Based on this advice, I started calling recruiters and also friends of mine in other law firms looking for jobs.

I remember how embarrassing it was calling friends in other law firms and explaining to them that I was looking for a job.  I explained that I had quit my job and the people I spoke with did not seem to believe me.  I think they thought I was fired.  After calling a few friends and going through these motions, I decided that I did not want to deal with it anymore.  One of the strangest experiences I had was having a meeting with a Russian man whom I believe was running a Ponzi Scheme and wanted me to work for free for him putting together various investment documents in what ostensibly were oil wells he controlled in Russia.  He said I would then get paid out of investments he and I solicited from wealthy people in Los Angeles.  It is not fun looking for a job, and I did not enjoy this “job interview” in particular.  Relying on friends to some extent to assist me in looking for a job was embarrassing and it allowed all sorts of rumors and stuff to start that were simply not warranted–or true.  At some point I decided I did not want to rely on friends to help me look for a job.

There are good people out there who can help you get jobs, and using friends is a great way to look for a job in some circumstances.  However, the real mistake that I made at this time was even caring what people thought about the fact that I was looking for a job.  This is the same mistake that the partner I was working for was making.  He was too concerned what people in the community and other lawyers would say if they found out he was looking for a job.  He feared the criticism that might come from this information getting out there.

If you are a very highly paid attorney, it is not always the easiest thing to do to find a highly paid job.  All of the skills that make you a highly paid attorney do not always translate into getting a job.  A highly paid attorney is often feared and some make more enemies than friends.  Not all law firms can afford to pay a highly paid attorney.

After he lost his job, the firm was kind enough to give him around four months to find a new job before he had to leave the firm.   During those four months, I spoke with him every few days.  We met for lunch a few times and went over various scenarios.  However, in all of our meetings this attorney was somewhat detached.  I could imagine that the people who worked for him must have feared him a great deal.  He was imposing and someone I could tell was extremely talented intellectually.  However, when it came to what he was doing in terms of looking for a job, I could tell that he was absolutely terrified of what other people would say.  He did not know how to look for a job, and I would tell him what he needed to do and he would sort of sit there looking at me not absorbing what I was saying.

If I suggested one law firm for him to apply to, he would tell me it was not as prestigious as the one he was currently working at.  He was concerned about what people would say if he went to work in a less prestigious firm.

For some reason, he was also embarrassed to be looking for a job.  He was worried what people would say if they found out he was looking for a job, as well.  We met in out-of-the-way places that he had investigated in advance where the only people who would be able to see us in the restaurant would be the waiters.  I think he was embarrassed to be seen with a legal recruiter. He also wanted to ensure that no one would overhear anything that was being said.  I certainly always take those precautions as well; however, in this instance the attorney seemed overly paranoid.

The problem with meeting with this attorney and discussing his job search was that he never took any action.  Two months into his search for a new job he had not even applied to a single law firm yet.  I was unclear if anyone even knew he had lost his job–including his own family.

“If you are going to get another job, then you are going to need to apply some places,” I eventually told him with a considerable amount of exasperation over lunch one day.  “You cannot get a job unless you apply somewhere.”

Eventually I was able to arrange two meetings with him at law firms.  They were unusual meetings that occurred in dark restaurants if I recall around 8:00 p.m. in the evening.  Only after he realized that the law firm would almost certainly hire him after a few hours of dinner and drinks did he agree to meet with the law firm in their offices during the day.  Before he met with each law firm, he made sure that he knew exactly whom he was meeting with and that he did not know any of these people.  He ended up receiving job offers by both law firms, but he also ended up making about 50% of the salary he had made at his former firm.  If he had not been so afraid of what others would say and so afraid of criticism, then he probably could have doubled his salary and gotten 10+ offers at really good firms.  He was afraid to put himself out there, however, and terrified of potential criticism.

The reason this story is so interesting to me is because this was one of the more important attorneys in America, and he was terrified of criticism and people saying bad things about him in terms of the way he looked for a job.  He was a tiger and feared in court, and some of the most famous and powerful figures in the world would seek him out for representation, but when it came to his own life and career, he was terrified.  The difference between not caring what people think in terms of how you look for a job and caring what people thing is something that will give you massively different results:

• I have seen attorneys who led the offices of major law firms be unemployed for years because the way they looked for a job was controlled primarily by their fear of criticism.
• I have seen numerous attorneys leave the practice of law after very good careers because they were afraid of being criticized in the way they look for a job.
• I have witnessed people who went to the best law schools in the United States graduate from these schools and never be able to find a job as attorneys because they did not know how to look for a job and were afraid of criticism.

I see this sort of thing all the time, and I see it because of the job that I do.  My job is to find people jobs, and it is something I take seriously.  Every day, when I turn on my computer, I also receive emails from people looking for jobs that have somehow found my personal email address and want me to find them jobs.  When I check my voicemail each day, there are messages from people who have tracked me down (despite the fact I have not been a recruiter in years) and want me to find them jobs.  Although I am no longer actively a legal recruiter, for years I spoke with all of these people, and I believe that I have enabled myself to really get a good understanding of what it takes for anyone to get a job.  I understand this not because I am smarter than anyone else or have any special knowledge or powers: I see this only because I have seen what works and what does not work.

I believe that finding a job is among the most important moments in our lives and careers.  When everything is going very well, we can go about doing our jobs and be happy.  When we lose our job, a new set of skills come into the realm.  The skill of finding a job is dependent upon not caring what other people are saying or will say.  You need to do whatever you can within your power to find a job, and the more you do and the less you fear criticism, the better job you will get and the more jobs you will get.  You need to lead and not follow.

There are few benefits from doing things the way everyone else is doing and caring what everyone else thinks all the time.  One of the more interesting experiences I have is when I drive down the street–any street–anywhere in the United States.  Here, you will see countless locally owned businesses that are small and have been sitting in the same location for years, if not decades. It may be a hot dog stand, a local carpet store, or something else.  There was a ski store that did this on the corner of the street I grew up on.  Across the street from this ski store, there was a small hardware store that did this.  And a short distance away from this, there was a small bike store and pet store.  A few years ago, I was back in my hometown and went into each of these stores after not having stepped foot in them for over 15 years.  What I noticed is that all of the people who owned these small businesses were still working hard and had aged considerably, but nothing else had changed.

These businesses are metaphors in my mind for the lives many of us lead.  We work, follow the rules, do our best and nothing ever happens.  We stay exactly where we always have been.  The reason this occurs is very few people are afraid to step out and take a stand and do things in a way that will subject them to potential criticism.  Most people are “in hiding” and not really subjecting themselves to everything they are capable of. It is like the partner of a major American law firm meeting for dinner and drinks in a dark restaurant with people who might hire him.  He was in hiding.  Most of us are in hiding.

If you are doing anything worthwhile and that is likely to really set you apart to lead, then it has to be worth criticizing.  Most businesses and people are boring, and that is why nothing ever happens to them.  People who follow the rules and spend their time wondering what others will think rarely achieve very much.  The same thing goes for companies.

Most people are terrified of criticism. I hate getting criticized, but try as I might, it comes every day.

• “That is the stupidest blog posting I have ever read.”
• “People are saying bad things about you.”
• “I have spoken with others, as well, and we all agree that we do not like you.”
• “You an an idiot for saying that.”
• “I feel sorry for your children.”

But here is the thing: Despite the criticism, I keep going.  I push harder and I do more of what I am doing.  I also get more praise than I do criticism, and the praise keeps coming every day.  The more I do what I believe is the best thing, the more praise I receive and also the more criticism.

Most people choose not to be everything they are capable of because they fear criticism.  They fail to apply to jobs they could do. They fail to call friends who could help them with their job search. They fail to run their businesses in a way that makes people take notice. They fail to dress they way they want to. They fail to marry people who they like and are attracted to. They fail to drive the sort of car they want to drive. They fail to live where they want to live. They fail to do the sorts of things they want to do in their spare time. They fail, and they fail, and they fail to do what they should be doing to live the lives they really want to live.  People limit themselves and their lives because they are more concerned about what other people think than what they think, believe and want to do.

Most often just the fear of being criticized is enough to paralyze people.  For most people, the criticism does not even need to happen for people to be deterred from doing something.  People will just not do something or be everything they are capable of doing and being due to their fears about what others will say.  I admit that when people say bad things about me, it is upsetting.  But this does not make me upset for very long.  The reason is because I know that people are noticing something that I am doing.  Lots of people like what I am doing and a few do not.  By and large, however, most people in this world are ignored. I would rather be noticed when I am trying to do something positive for the world than to be ignored.

You need to be noticed in order to get a job. You need to be noticed in order to succeed in a job. If your heart and intentions and pure, then you should not fear what others think. If you are criticized, so what?  When I am criticized for something I write, or a business I am running, I realize that if I had done something ordinary that did not stimulate people to think, there would be no criticism.  No one would care. The things we talk about are the ones that are worth talking about.

As you contemplate your life, you need to ask yourself if taking action is worth being criticized.  If the side effect of being criticized is that you will lose a job or an important relationship, then maybe the answer is you should not do whatever you are contemplating.  However, if the worst that can happen is you will feel bad about the criticism that may or may not come, then you have to compare that feeling with the incredible benefits you may derive from taking an action that could change your career and life.  The rewards for being the best you can be, getting the best possible job and succeeding are huge.  A slight or criticism is something that you will soon forget about.  The rewards for conquering your fear of criticism are huge, and the penalty for fearing criticism is huge as well.  If you fear criticism and run your life around this, you will have an unremarkable career and life and will never be able to be everything you want to be.  How can you run your career, life and job search in a way which others will criticize?

The winners in this world are the ones who are acting despite what others may say, or are saying.  The losers are the ones who are paralyzed with fear and afraid to take action because of what others may say.